Thru The Grapewine

Curious about Wine's Transformative Power? Explore Sedale McCall's Journey into Virginia's Wine Culture and Diversity Advocacy

• Ute Mitchell • Episode 46

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Have you ever heard a tale so captivating it lingers with you long after the story's end? We've got one such narrative in our latest Through the Grapevine episode, where Sedale McCall, a Virginia native and emerging wine virtuoso, paints us a picture of his personal odyssey from psychology and strategic communications into the heart of the wine industry. His approach to storytelling in the realm of wines and his anticipation for the WSET Level 3 examination are not just discussed; they're experienced.

The episode is also a toast to the remarkable women fermenting change in the industry, with a nod to inspiring women like Tiquette Bramlett. We delve into the art of authentic networking, the impacts of writing that comes from the depths of the soul, and the sheer delight in sharing these tales that intertwine with the world of wine.

Yet, beneath the bouquet of achievements, there lies a pressing dialogue on diversity within the wine world. We scrutinize the real strides made toward inclusivity since the vows of 2020, challenging the industry to show tangible evidence of their commitments. And for a refreshing palate cleanser, we revel in the thrill of introducing connoisseurs to exotic varietals, like Indian sparkling wines, broadening horizons one sip at a time. With a glass raised to Sedale McCall, we invite you to savor the insights and stories poured generously throughout our conversation.

Find Sedale on Instagram

Email: info@thruthegrapewine.com
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Ute (00:00.603)
Well, hello again, my friends. This is Ute with the Thru the Grapewine podcast and it's episode 46. If you're following me on social media, you probably already know that I will start releasing weekly episodes again. One week it'll be just me talking and then the other week I will interview a guest. I'm pretty excited for this and I've had a lot of really positive feedback from people about this. So I think it'll be a lot of fun. Um.

I am very, very excited for my guest today. First of all, this person is hands down, one of the nicest people I interact with on Instagram. So there, I said it. Second, he's actually a man, and he's the very first man to interview for this podcast, and I am so honored that he agreed to be on the show. It is Sedale McCall. Hello.

Sedale McCall (00:56.422)
Hey there. I'm happy to be the first. I appreciate the honor.

Ute (01:00.983)
Yes, yes. I am the one who's honored, honestly. And you sent over this really beautiful bio that I'm going to actually just read right here, saying, Sedale is an award-winning writer. We know this. An editor focused on the stories and conversations that are not being told enough. His passion is for stories related to diversity and inclusion in all aspects of the industry. A Virginia native.

Born, raised and residing in Alexandria, Sedale focuses on his home state and how wine is enjoyed outside of typical regions. He was the 2023 Journalist of the Year at the Hugh Society's Rosé Branch Awards, shortlisted for the 2024 Emerging Talent in Wine Communication Award and is currently conducting research as a fellow for Venice Media to better understand.

the major AVA's in Virginia. He holds his WSET Level 2 certification and is a certified specialist of wine and American wine experts. And you're actually studying for WSET Level 3, as I understand.

Sedale McCall (02:13.774)
I am, as of this recording, I test next Sunday. So it'll be about a week and a half.

Ute (02:19.672)
Ooh. All right, how are you feeling about it?

Sedale McCall (02:25.006)
I feel good. I've been preparing for quite a while. If anyone that follows me on social, I did this kind of like independent study back in like October, just going through a bunch of YouTube videos. And then I took my course in December. And for the past six weeks, I've been recording like random videos on Instagram about the different regions that I'm studying. So I feel pretty good. Read the book twice. I've been tasting nonstop. So hopefully I'm ready.

Ute (02:43.88)
Yes.

Ute (02:52.179)
Well, the tasting portion will be the easy part. Let me tell you that. That is what everybody finds who sits for level three. Everybody's so worried about the tasting portion and it turns out that's the easy part. So.

Sedale McCall (02:56.022)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sedale McCall (03:07.438)
Yeah, I think it's because I've never done it before. I've never been timed. I've never had to tell someone. No one's ever tested me on tasting. I just drink wine or if I'm in a tasting group, we're kind of like low key, but this will be my first time in front of a judge tasting through these things.

Ute (03:11.815)
Right.

Ute (03:24.595)
Yes, oh my gosh, I'm sure you will do great. So actually, let's just start by you telling me a little bit about your upbringing, where you're from, what you do before you became one of the wine industry's really, truly most recognizable faces right now.

Sedale McCall (03:40.55)
I don't know, I suppose, I will say it's very wild to be someone that people know, but I don't know that they know me. Like when for most people you're walking through life, all the people you know also know you. And I've had to your point a couple of moments where people have told me they've recognized me before I got to meet them, which is weird. But I grew up in Richmond. So I've been in Virginia my whole life. I grew up in Richmond, which is in the center of the state.

Ute (03:50.236)
Uh huh.

Ute (04:01.939)
Hehe

Sedale McCall (04:10.082)
I went to the University of Virginia in Charlottesville, and then I moved up here. I now I'm in Alexandria, which is in Northern Virginia. So, Virginia through and through, we had all of the history classes of the state when I was a child. And I would say that kind of informed a lot of my upbringing, like this kind of contrast of the demographics I grew up with, with the demographics you're learning about in history. So,

Ute (04:25.472)
Huh?

Ute (04:38.111)
Sure.

Sedale McCall (04:38.118)
I'm sure we'll talk more about my approach to writing, but it informed that that's where all that comes from is that there's always been a contrast between who I was and who I was learning about. But, you know, I spent a lot of time learning as much as I can. You can see these massive if you look at the video, you see these massive degrees behind me. So very studious, very interested in that a lot of people have, I think, quoted that about my writing. It's very

Ute (04:48.575)
Sure.

Ute (04:57.449)
Yeah!

Sedale McCall (05:07.358)
studied, I suppose.

Ute (05:09.135)
Right, right. So, so what have you done before? Oh, well, actually, that is going to be my second question, isn't it? So you do actually have a bachelor's degree in psychology. You also have a master's in strategic communications. And I am actually dying to know how you ended up, you know, going from there to the wine industry, how what brought on that shift.

Sedale McCall (05:22.359)
Yeah.

Sedale McCall (05:36.462)
Sure, it's a fantastic question. Yeah, so this is my degree in psychology. Over here is my master's in strategic communications. It's a normal size degree, so that it's hanging up over there. You know, I think a lot of, for a lot of people, I don't know that there's a ton of people where wine is the reason they're in the industry. I think for me, it's about people. I mean, if you can bring the two degrees together, there's the psychology, which is really about people.

how they think, how they behave, why they make certain decisions. And then there's communications, which is the story. So I tell stories about people, and I think this industry is just one where there are so many interesting people across so many different, you know, different things. I mean, I think, you know, most people will tell you wine touches everything. I mean, there's history, there's supply, there's business, there's culture, there's religion, there's all facets of life can be touched by wine. And so...

Ute (06:31.84)
Yeah.

Sedale McCall (06:33.834)
all the people as well can be in a lot of different places. So I got into it through just a real interest in humans interacting within this great industry of ours.

Ute (06:44.403)
Right. Well, so have you always been drinking wine though? Like when, when did you kind of decide, you know, wine is something that you really love because even, even if it's not technically about the wine, there still has to be kind of a love or passion for wine.

Sedale McCall (07:01.882)
Certainly, no. Wine was definitely not something that was around the kitchen table as a child. My parents will drink because I will recommend things for them, but they don't go to drink wine every night or anything like that. I really got into it through wine tastings and going to wineries for fun, not because I was interested in the industry.

Ute (07:12.663)
Right.

Sedale McCall (07:26.814)
After a couple of trips to Napa and places like that, I really got to see how much was involved in that. We would go to places and they would talk about the aspect of the vineyards and how the fogs can, you know, kind of moderate the climate, like all those sort of heady things that really made me think, okay, wow, there's actually a lot happening before we get to the glass. And so that's kind of where I got into it. And then obviously now it's my main drink of choice.

Ute (07:43.897)
Mm-hmm.

Ute (07:56.275)
Right. Yes, same. And I agree, you know, when I joined the industry first, I've said this multiple times on this podcast, the wine industry kind of fell into my lap, right? It was something that I really wasn't looking for. All I knew about wine was that I liked it.

Um, but then once I was in the tasting room, all of a sudden it was like this, oh my gosh, I really love this. I love talking to the people that I encounter on a regular basis. And, um, I love talking about the wine and all of a sudden, you know, the differences in the wine, especially here in the Well, I'm in Valley where we have all of these sub AVA's and these different microclimates, and now all of a sudden you get to talk about, you know, all of those details. And so I'm having a.

lot of fun with that. But again, it is really about the people who actually want to hear me tell those stories in a way.

Sedale McCall (09:01.238)
Certainly. Yeah, that's really cool. And I've got to get to Oregon sometime. It's a very awesome place, I hear.

Ute (09:08.103)
Yes, please do. Please do. I'll show you around. So in your LinkedIn profile, you say you're a data storyteller, a DEI advocate and a wine writer. I really like us to work our way through that list. And let's start with the data storyteller. What is that? What does that mean?

Sedale McCall (09:30.91)
Yeah, it's an interesting question and I think one that changes day by day, but I would say fundamentally, so my career for a very long time was in research and digital analytics. And so as I got more skills in that space, what I really started to find was I didn't care that much about the certifications, though there's a ton of them in my LinkedIn profile. The

point was I wanted to tell a story and I needed certain tools and certain techniques to really tell the story about the data that I was collecting for people. And so that's kind of where that came from is that my goal is to tell a really interesting story as a writer, as a researcher. But I use data, I use the information, I use, you know, I kind of like try to speak truth to power as much as possible. But in that truth, really kind of grounding it in information that everyone can.

Ute (10:22.251)
Uh huh.

Sedale McCall (10:28.54)
So that's kind of where the Dave's Storyteller piece comes.

Ute (10:31.623)
Okay, yes, I love that. So I feel like we almost need to combine the di advocate and wine writer in this because you do use your writing skills to tell the untold wine stories and untold wine stories, by the way, guys, is his Instagram handle. So if you want to go and follow him, there's going to be a lot of really great information there and some

study videos too about WSET3. So when and how did you start the writing? Can you tell me a little bit about Uncorked and Cultured while you're doing that? Because I know that you are the editorial manager there and a writer as well.

Sedale McCall (11:02.498)
Oh yeah.

Sedale McCall (11:20.842)
Yeah, yeah, happy to. And yeah, I agree. Though it wasn't intentional, it did kind of, my two worlds kind of merged. So very quickly, previous to the time of writing about wine, I was spending a lot of time, like everybody, in 2019, 2020, 2021, trying to wrestle with some of the things that were happening in our country. And through that, I got a few opportunities, one of which was to lead communications for

the biggest NAACP chapter in the state, which was Fairfax County. And so I led comms there for a while. So that's really where the DEI stuff started, but I agree it's over time really gotten into my writing as well. I've been writing three, four years now. I still feel like a new writer, a aspiring writer sometimes even, because I just haven't done it as long as so many have, but...

The entire time I've been trying to tell really interesting stories and I think in trying to kind of go away a little bit from the more established regions, brands, et cetera, I think you find that the emerging regions and these other untold stories over index on people of color, diverse populations, women, especially. And so for me, that those two things kind of came together naturally.

One of which being with Uncorked and Cultured. So Uncorked and Cultured is a publication founded by Angela McCray, who if you haven't had, she's amazing, you should definitely talk to her. She's currently in California and she designed this company to really focus on culture, wine, adventure, wellness. I come in as one of the wine writers and then over time took over editorial for that publication. So.

Ute (12:48.188)
Yeah.

Sedale McCall (13:14.878)
If you're interested in contributing, let me know. That's my main role is to really work with our contributors to add content to the site. I help them edit pieces. I help them with ideas. I help them start to hone their skills and talents. A lot of our writers are new. So we even do like just workshops on the writing process and really helping them start to get their legs under them. Recommended a couple of them for the Wine Writer's Symposium. They just got back from that.

Ute (13:28.693)
guys.

Sedale McCall (13:44.038)
this month, which was really cool. And I was honored to tell both of those stories to those women who are now part of that fold. And that's ultimately my goal is like, how can we really expand what this industry looks and feels like across the board? And a lot of that has to do with the DAI stuff as well.

Ute (14:00.712)
Yeah.

Ute (14:04.859)
Right, for sure. So as you know, of course, I do like to tell the stories of women in the wine industry. And it is still, as we all know, still heavily dominated by men. You have been a really great connector, not just for me, I'm feel probably for a lot of people and have put me in touch with actually multiple women that I ended up interviewing in the podcast.

What makes you such a great networker? Like, you know, how are you drawing all of these people together like that? I find that very admirable.

Sedale McCall (14:44.706)
Thank you. I appreciate that. It comes from a genuine place. I don't know that I'm always trying to create a strategy in terms of what I'm doing, but I do think a lot of it comes from being so interested in people. I love everybody I've recommended to you and everyone you've had on the podcast are extraordinary human beings. To be on a podcast with Tiquette Bramlett

was also on is an extraordinary achievement for me, because she is just a wonderful human being. And I think that, you know, for me that hash, that networking ability comes from just really being, I actually, I've written about Taquette, but I actually genuinely care about who she is. And it wasn't a job for me to write about her. It was a joy to be able to talk to her and understand her story.

Ute (15:30.842)
of her.

Ute (15:36.231)
Right. Yeah.

Sedale McCall (15:38.262)
tell someone else. And so many people, Mariam you've had on this podcast, she was an amazing resource for me very early in my career. And again, someone I've written about, not because it was a job or a good story that people would click on, but I genuinely think she's an awesome person and I want to tell you how awesome she is. And so, I think that to me for networking as a term comes from that. If you actually...

Ute (15:58.142)
Yeah.

Sedale McCall (16:06.434)
care about the person, you're interested in their story, they will feel that and they'll, you know, hopefully wanna help you as well. So that's kind of where it comes from.

Ute (16:14.943)
Sure. You know, when you're talking about Tiquette, she was definitely one of those people, you know, I always, I always have this like feeling of starstruckness with certain people. So when you agreed to be on my podcast, I was going, what? Yes. And, and I felt the same way with to Tiquette and Maria Ponzi and, and I always in some way return back to the

Probably mostly because she is such an easygoing wine drinker too. I mean, one, she has a great story, of course, but she really wants to make wine something that people can enjoy without having to be all fancy about it. It's like, oh, you're tasting skittles in the wine? Who am I to tell you that you're not? So I just really, really love that about her. So yes.

Recently, I actually wrote a comment on one of her stories on Instagram and she said, well, thank you so much, my friend. I miss you. And I'm going.

Sedale McCall (17:26.539)
Hahaha

Ute (17:27.899)
My friend! So, yeah, still starstruck, but my friend, so... Yeah, yeah.

Sedale McCall (17:32.846)
That's awesome. Yeah.

Sedale McCall (17:37.71)
That's incredible. Yeah, yeah, I mean, an amazing being and I love her a lot.

Ute (17:42.735)
Yes. So, okay, back to you though. You keep moving forward in your career. And so there comes, you know, the 2023 Hue Society Journalist of the Year, 2023 Jancis Robinson Wine Writing Competition Shortlist. And you recently added the title of course, you know, Young Writer Fellow for Vinous Media. First of all, congratulations. That's amazing. You are an amazing writer and storyteller and

Sedale McCall (18:07.598)
Thank you.

Ute (18:12.171)
I feel like you just said you feel like you're so new to writing, but have you, have you done any kind of writing in the past, like as a kid, or was that something that you really enjoyed doing? Or is that literally something that just started?

Sedale McCall (18:25.326)
To be like being genuinely honest, I think at this level, this kind of writing is fairly new for me. I'll say as a child, especially not to date myself too much, but this is pre lots of computers and everyone's typing everything. My handwriting is terrible. So I hated writing because I was not very good at it because nothing was legible. My parents would force me to like rehearse and my penmanship and to do all these exercises

didn't enjoy it for that reason. And so I definitely went into the business world because I thought it was the farthest you could get from writing and having to like produce content being in. I was gonna, I went to school for accounting because I thought I could avoid English classes by taking those classes. And so, you know, for me, writing was not, definitely not something at the top of my list. And over time, I think I've always had, you know,

Ute (18:57.232)
Uh huh.

Sedale McCall (19:24.034)
sense of, you know, putting words together and I had, you know, interesting thoughts, at least I think interesting thoughts, but I didn't ever think to put them into long-form writing until, you know, the past three years. I suppose in research you do some writing, but it's academic writing far more than it is storytelling.

Ute (19:34.399)
Uh huh.

Ute (19:39.603)
Right. Sure. Yeah. I actually, I love writing and it is something that I'm kind of hoping to get back into just because it's something that I really enjoy doing. Um, I've done freelance writing for years and I'm not entirely sure why I ever left that because I enjoyed so much, you know? So I, you know, I could talk to

you know, fellow writers all day long about, about storytelling and, um, making it so that people actually want to read it. Um, and, and we're going to talk about that in just a moment again, but I really want to know too, what does it mean to you to be recognized in this way? Um, I know that this is not something that just

happens just like that. Oh, yeah, that fell into my lap. I imagine it really does take a lot of hard work and dedication on your part.

Sedale McCall (20:43.306)
Yeah, yeah, it's, I will say that the achievements have been absolutely surreal. It's definitely not something that's, that's not what I've been after. So I, you know, in these awards, especially the Hue Society one wasn't one I even applied for someone else recommended me to that and ultimately was able to win, which is incredible. My mentor gave me the application for the Venus young.

fellow. And again, another thing I just like, I'll just do it because I think my mentor is very smart. And if she thinks I should try it, I'll go for it. Didn't even, you know, hadn't even thought about it again until they reached out and said, like, Hey, you got it. Which was incredible. And so all of these things, I think, one, I think they affirm the thing I always believed, which is that these stories need to be told, and they aren't being told enough. And I think people

Ute (21:17.34)
Uh-huh.

Ute (21:25.867)
Ha ha!

Ute (21:36.947)
Right. Yeah.

Sedale McCall (21:40.234)
at least for now, seem to agree that the stories I'm telling have value. But I also hope it tells other people that they should focus on what they actually want to write about. I think that's been the key to, if we will call it my success. I think the key has been I actually care about these stories. I'm not writing stories that I think will get a lot of clicks or make money or whatever. Like, I genuinely want to tell these stories. And

Ute (22:09.097)
Yeah.

Sedale McCall (22:09.75)
A few people seem to think that that's worthy of some sort of award. So that's been how all this has gone down.

Ute (22:13.139)
AHAHAHAHAHA

Ute (22:18.867)
Well, and maybe that's just it. You know, when you are writing really kind of from your heart, rather than, you know, go for the clickbait, because everybody can do clickbait these days, right? It's it's really something that, you know, in many cases, I just find that annoying because I don't want to be pulled into something that really I didn't want to see to begin with.

But when you're writing something that comes from your heart that you feel strongly about, I feel like you're going to be writing about it completely differently. And so I'm not surprised that some people thought it was worthy of an award.

Sedale McCall (22:57.45)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's absolutely true. And fortunately, I've had enough people think that, that others have joined. I mean, to me, the whole point of the Jancis Robinson shortlist was just to get Nsikki Biela on her website more than it was to win an award. So it was fantastic to get there. As Lena is an incredible company and an incredible story. And whenever I can...

Ute (23:23.22)
Yeah.

Sedale McCall (23:25.558)
can do that for people, that's my ultimate goal.

Ute (23:28.839)
Yeah, for sure. So I did read your outstanding article on SOMM TV magazine. It's titled Black Women in Wine Shine, Despite the Odds Against Them. So I'm a white woman with challenges to be seen in this industry, right? I can only imagine the uphill battle that black women face. And I am in awe of the women, especially the ones that you featured there, who made it to where they are now. And

I really am curious to hear from you if you are seeing a trend going in the right direction. And you know, as you're observing these women moving through the industry, and granted things can always be better. We know this, but are we moving in the right direction? And what else do we need to do to like, kind of, I don't know, gain that momentum, I guess.

Sedale McCall (24:22.958)
Yeah, yeah, this is one of your better questions, I would say. I mean, all of your questions have been great, but this one to me made me think the most because I wanna be as positive as I can here. I do think that the industry understands that there are not enough representation across the board. There are not enough women in this industry by far, especially in terms of leadership. There are not enough black women in this industry.

Ute (24:42.161)
Uh-huh.

Sedale McCall (24:49.23)
there are not enough black people in this industry. I think that has, I think everyone can at least agree now in a way that we didn't five years ago, we can at least agree there's not enough representation in the industry. Where I'm challenged by your question is the term moving in the right direction. I don't know that there has been enough activity because one of the things that I wrote in that piece and then a future piece I did with them around have we made progress since 2020, I wrote that

Ute (24:54.857)
Yeah.

Ute (25:06.033)
Mm-hmm.

Sedale McCall (25:18.35)
about three years after George Floyd's unfortunate death, in both cases where I landed was, there still hasn't been very many actions. If you look across the board, there's the same percentage of black owned wineries is as it was 10 years ago. If you look at the major conglomerates, the Gallos, the constellations, et cetera, their boards more or less look...

Ute (25:35.883)
Mm-hmm, right.

Sedale McCall (25:46.27)
the same. There's been some movement if you look at some of the major brands. I think DRC is now run by one of the daughters within that group. But NetNet, I think we're kind of in the same place. So to me, what brings that momentum is we've done enough saying that what are we doing? Again, as a researcher, I back my things in data, right? So what are the metrics that say we're making progress rather than the conversations?

Ute (25:47.307)
Uh-huh.

Ute (26:06.507)
Mm-hmm.

Sedale McCall (26:15.83)
that say we're making progress. I think we've had a ton of conversations. I think the next step is like, can we actually start to see things we can measure to make progress?

Ute (26:24.103)
Right. I, yes, I think part of what's happened, you know, and we've, we've of course had, you know, a lot of big protests here in Portland in 2020. And I think initially what happened was, yes, there was a lot of talk and then, you know, we're like, patting our collective backs, you know, Hey, look, we talked about it.

Um, and, uh, one of my previous guests that I interviewed, Nia Ruth, um, she actually wrote two articles, um, where she was saying that as well, kind of what you're saying right now is like, we really felt like there was something happening in 2020 where we were going, oh my gosh, maybe we are going in the right direction. And then as she's revisiting this a couple of years later, she's realizing actually no.

not much has happened since then. And it's really kind of disappointing that not enough has happened. So what, but you know, like, who do we talk to? Like, who do we talk to, you know, to, because the decision makers, you know, I can, yes, I can go up to a board, I guess, and say, hey, you know,

Sedale McCall (27:32.714)
Hehehe

Ute (27:46.219)
What are you doing about it? Are we are we going to write about it? Are we going to call them out publicly? Like what do we do about it? You know, is

Sedale McCall (27:55.295)
Yeah, I will say as someone who, at least right now, my job isn't staked on how much people like me, I do think that the ability to really have these conversations and again, I think call to task the people that made these quote unquote commitments, you know, and what's been done. You said you were going to pledge $100 million into really diversifying your company. Great. How much money have you spent? Where's that money gone?

Ute (28:22.515)
Right? Yeah.

Sedale McCall (28:23.362)
who's been hired so far. Because unfortunately, I bet you, if you've got real answers to a lot of those questions, that money hasn't gone anywhere yet. No one's spent any of that money. Individuals have not been hired or trained. I mean, now you're seeing in the DEI space, DEI teams being laid off, being let go. So I don't know that there's still that same level of momentum. And I certainly don't know that the commitments and pledges that were made in 2020 have been realized.

Ute (28:53.887)
Well, I feel like that...

Sedale McCall (28:54.23)
But sorry, to answer your question, yes, I think the answer is we should be going to some of these boards and saying, hey, X company, you said you were going to pledge $200 million over 10 years. It's been four. So where's the $6 million gone? Where's the $8 million?

Ute (29:08.935)
Yeah. Show us some numbers. Yeah, for sure. Wow. I feel like this could be an entire episode on justice topic. And I certainly am very interested in discussing this and would love to talk more, possibly in the future and just kind of to see what I can do to use my voice.

in support. So let's table the conversation, but get back to it at a later date. And so with that, I am actually going to pivot into a different direction here for a moment and ask you a question that has really been burning since you posted about it on Instagram. So I posted this Instagram story about what you bring, what combine what you bring to a party,

Sedale McCall (29:43.534)
Yeah, absolutely.

Ute (30:07.267)
of maybe not necessarily big wine connoisseurs. And you responded and you said something, and I don't actually remember what that was, but then you said, for the right people, you would introduce Indian bubbles. And that is something, I mean, completely new to me, never even occurred to me. So I need you to tell me about the Indian bubbles.

Sedale McCall (30:27.211)
Yeah.

Sedale McCall (30:34.666)
Absolutely, yes. So the point of that comment was that, you know, I think sometimes what I like about how much I've learned about wine is the ability to say, here's some things you just didn't even knew existed. Like here's an idea that I might have as long as I can tie it to something else. So the good thing about Indian bubbles is that you can get, it approximates bubbles that you have had before. And so it's not something completely off the shelf or some crazy like pet nap that like no one's even tasted anything like it before.

Ute (30:57.437)
Uh-huh.

Sedale McCall (31:05.054)
So the I would say the short version is India like many countries like it have no issue rife in grapes. It's a fairly warm climate by warming very hot climate. So it's actually it's more difficult to maintain acidities for a sparkling wine in a place like India. But there are some places with a modern enough climate that can produce this grapes.

Ute (31:17.225)
Right.

Sedale McCall (31:34.922)
Chardonnay, I got champagne, but a little bit more fresh and fruitiness, kind of like a Prosecco. I think it does a really good balance between those two things. I've got to find that bottle so I can give you the specific producer I got this one from. But yeah, I think it's a crowd pleaser. If you ever can encounter Indian bubbles, I think it's a great summer, spring option that again, most people will do what you're doing.

Ute (31:37.035)
Good luck!

Sedale McCall (32:02.102)
They make bubbles in India and I think it's a good little party thing. Yeah, yes, yes they do. They make actually very tasty bubbles in India.

Ute (32:03.847)
Right, yeah!

Ute (32:10.891)
That is so amazing. And I mean, too bad that in some cases, it's so difficult to get your hands on, you know, some of these really interesting wines. I would love the opportunity to, you know, try wines, even from all the 50 United States, you know, because I know that all 50 states make wine. Why can't I get my hand or my hands on bottles from every state here?

Sedale McCall (32:29.038)
Yeah.

Ute (32:39.399)
And then of course, internationally speaking, that's a whole different animal too. So very difficult to sometimes get those wines. So we're, go ahead.

Sedale McCall (32:49.942)
Yeah, yeah, certainly.

I was just going to say, I think it's criminal that it's so difficult to get some of these lines, like in states that are within a couple hours of flight from you, that are making incredible lines that I think everyone-

Ute (33:02.473)
Yeah.

Ute (33:05.895)
Yeah, for sure. So where did you get your Indian bubbles?

Sedale McCall (33:11.398)
Thankfully, I'm a part of a wine club here, Screwtop Wine Club in Arlington, Virginia, and they have a bubbles club. And so I get two bottles every month and often they will throw in a couple of like curve balls that have been really cool. I should have to go get mine this month, this month being obviously Women's History Month. So there are a couple of women-owned producers that we'll get this month. But they're very good about doing that kind of thing, giving you different.

Ute (33:27.826)
Huh.

Sedale McCall (33:39.87)
off the beaten path kind of bottle. So that's where I got that one.

Ute (33:42.327)
Okay. All right. Well, that's cool. Well, I'm going to certainly be, you know, paying closer attention to see if maybe I can get my hands on something new and exciting. Because I like you saying, you know, it's almost like a little bit like a party trick, like, look what I brought. So that will be kind of cool. So of course, we've mentioned it before. And I can't believe we've made it to our last question. But

Sedale McCall (33:50.69)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Sedale McCall (34:00.022)
Yeah.

Ute (34:08.951)
You are studying for WSET level three and you are sitting for your exam here pretty soon. Now, I wanted to, because I often ask as the last question, you know, what's your favorite wine region to go to or something like that. And I realized that that's a very difficult thing to answer, but we're going to turn it like this. If someone offered you an all-inclusive trip,

to one of the wine regions that are covered in the book. Where would you go and why?

Sedale McCall (34:44.61)
I think equally interesting question. I do appreciate that you're not making me pick one over others. I am fascinated by Australia. One, I would pick it because it's thankfully expensive. So if someone's going to pay for it, thank you. But also, just if you think about the climate there, first of all, very hot. I mean, we're talking like the 30th to 34th latitudes, which for people that don't know, is about as close as you can get to the equator.

Ute (34:55.711)
Hmm

Sedale McCall (35:14.37)
without being way too hot to grow grapes. But they've got oceans, they've got elevation, they've got all these different things that can make it a really interesting place. Tasmania actually makes sparkling wine, which is nearly impossible in a place that warm without all of these interesting things happening. Obviously the culture is just also fascinating, the wildlife is very fascinating, but I think the wines there are very interesting in a...

Ute (35:27.114)
Right.

Sedale McCall (35:44.01)
really interesting way. I think they're also, I don't know if they're an emerging region necessarily, but a region that not everybody has a lot of wine from. So I think it could be, make for a really interesting story.

Ute (35:50.568)
Yeah.

Ute (35:54.399)
Certainly a younger wine region for both Australia and New Zealand. So I feel like, you know, if you're over there already, just, you know, make it an all-inclusive trip to Australia and New Zealand. Yeah, I would, I would love to definitely go to both of those wine regions. I was very fascinated, especially by Australia, but then also by New Zealand. And

Sedale McCall (35:57.303)
Certainly.

Sedale McCall (36:05.974)
Have a good one. Yeah. Why not?

Ute (36:23.071)
I've had the opportunity to try several really, really lovely Pinot Noirs from New Zealand, which generally speaking, I'm more of a, you know, I like my bolder reds generally, but because I live in a wine region that is predominantly Pinot Noir, it's also certainly very interesting to compare.

Sedale McCall (36:30.516)
Oh yeah.

Ute (36:48.699)
you know, what these different Pinot Noirs from various wine regions taste like. I've learned that I actually like, Willamette I'm at Valley Pinot Noirs much more so than southern Germany. And, you know, so yeah, they, the, the German Pinot Noirs, anyway, the ones that I have tried so far, the acidity is so high in so many of them.

Sedale McCall (37:02.315)
Oh, interesting.

Ute (37:17.599)
Um, and gosh, I'm going to say a terrible thing now and I shouldn't, but it's like almost like I'm drinking something very thin compared to, you know, some of the, the Pinots that I drink here. And so when I was over there the last time drinking Pinot Noir I was going, yeah, that's okay. I think they do Riesling better.

Sedale McCall (37:47.13)
That's a fascinating point. And hopefully there aren't too many people in your life that would be really upset by you saying that in public. But a really interesting, I'll have to now make that comparison.

Ute (37:54.739)
Hahaha

Ute (37:59.491)
Right, yes, it's definitely always an interesting thing to compare the various regions or in, you know, like I said earlier, even just comparing the Pinot Noirs within the various sub AVA's that we have here. Very, very interesting to do some blind tastings there side by side. I actually I know this was supposed to be the last question, but because we're talking about WSET and you have done level three.

Sedale McCall (38:11.586)
Yeah. That's right.

Ute (38:26.495)
Do you see level four diploma on the horizon or maybe not?

Sedale McCall (38:33.71)
No, I do. I don't think I've ever said this out loud. However, one of my big ambitions is to take my family to London after graduating from my diploma. I think there's something, so like part of my WSET journey is obviously to learn as much as I can to like really kind of achieve personally. But I think there's just I think there's something inspiring to especially now having a young child to

Ute (38:38.591)
Yeah.

Ute (38:43.083)
Huh? After graduation? Yes!

Sedale McCall (39:02.19)
pursuing something for that long. By the time I finished my diploma, it could be easily the better part of a decade of work. And I think there's something powerful in being able to tell him that I pushed myself for 10 years to do this and then have that kind of culmination of like going, literally flying across the pond. There's something, I don't know, there's something kind of emotional about that.

Ute (39:09.555)
Right. Yeah.

Sedale McCall (39:30.146)
which has been really driving me to say, yeah, as long as I do okay in this exam next week, I wanna see what the next level looks like.

Ute (39:30.186)
Yeah.

Ute (39:39.203)
That's incredible. Yeah, a friend of mine is doing is working on diploma right now. And I know he's gonna want to go to London for graduation. And I really, really I mean, I hope for him and I really want this for you that is going to be just a super success. And I hope I still know you by then so that I can, you know, live vicariously through you.

and go, that is not something that I'm ever going to attempt. So more power to you.

Sedale McCall (40:08.71)
Hahaha

Yeah, I know it's gonna be a big challenge, but I don't know, I don't know. I feel that for it so far. We'll see what happens in a few weeks, but I think it's something, it's a worthwhile goal, it's something worth pursuing, and I tend to gravitate toward those things.

Ute (40:28.415)
I love that. Wonderful. Well, so now thank you so very much for being here. I am very, very honored that you came on to this podcast. So thank you. Um, I am going to have your information in the show notes. I always do that. I always make sure, um, people, you know, if you're interested in what any of my guests have to say, then follow them on social media. They're, you know, certainly active there.

And I think, you know, my guests have a lot of really amazing stuff to offer. So please, please follow and read and, you know, follow their journey. It's amazing. So again, thank you so much.

Sedale McCall (41:12.746)
Yeah, thank you. I really appreciate it. This has been an awesome conversation.

Ute (41:16.191)
Good, I'm so glad. And yes, let's definitely get in touch and talk some more about what was it question number eight. So my friends, I this is it. This is the end and all I have left to say, of course, at this point is Prost.

Sedale McCall (41:24.866)
Yeah, happy to, happy to do it.