Thru The Grapewine

Ever Wondered How to Make Your Mark in the Wine World? Karen Wetzel Shares Insider Tips

• Ute Mitchell • Episode 40

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Join us for an illuminating conversation with Karen Wetzel, also known as Napa Valley WineGal, as she uncorks the secrets to success in the dynamic world of wine. From her humble beginnings as a restaurant server to her current roles as a writer, wine industry career coach, and secret shopper, Karen's journey is as diverse and flavorful as the wines she adores.

In this episode, we delve into the inner workings of the wine industry, exploring the importance of credentials and education in securing coveted roles. Whether you're considering a career change or seeking to deepen your knowledge as an enthusiast, Karen and I offer valuable insights into navigating education programs like WSET and Master Sommelier, helping you chart a course toward your wine industry dreams.

So, whether you're sipping casually or contemplating a leap into the wine world, grab your glass and join us for an enriching conversation that promises to inspire and inform. Cheers to new beginnings, bold ambitions, and the boundless opportunities awaiting in the world of wine!

Instagram:  @napavalleywinegal

Linked In:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/karen-wetzel/

Wine Industry Career Coaching:  https://go.oncehub.com/KarenWetzelConsulting

Subscribe to WineJobs.com HR Newsletter:   https://cdn.forms-content.sg-form.com/f46bac57-831a-11ee-83e1-eefb67307e76

Email: info@thruthegrapewine.com
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Speaker 1:

Well, hello again, my friends, and a very warm welcome to you through the Great Wine Podcast. I am your host, Uta Mitchell, and this is, believe it or not, episode number 40, which I am excited about, even though I will say it's been a while and a lot has happened since the last time I recorded an episode. I know some of you out there know about it, but this is not called the Chaotic Life of Uta, so I'm not going to get into that all that much. What is important is I am back and I'm excited to be back, and if you're a woman in the wine industry who wants to be featured here on this podcast, please let me know. I will have that information, contact information down in the show notes, of course, as always.

Speaker 1:

And with that let's introduce today's special guest. She and I have been wanting to do an episode together for a while. It's obviously entirely my fault that it hasn't happened until now, but here we are with Karen Wetzel, who goes on Instagram by Napa Valley WineGal. She is a wine industry career coach, a wine educator, a writer, a secret shopper, and I am probably forgetting something here. So I'll just say hello and welcome, Karen. Hi Uta, how are you? I'm doing great now that we figured out our sound issues.

Speaker 2:

We had a few technical difficulties, but we got here.

Speaker 1:

We got it, we got it. So I am going to just jump right into our first question. And of course, I had to do a little bit of research about you and it says on your LinkedIn profile I am an experienced, credentialed wine industry professional with a highly regarded reputation for developing creative, interactive content and presentations to educate and delight students, consumers and clients. And I mean that sounds really great.

Speaker 2:

I'm also good at marketing. Can you tell I love it so much?

Speaker 1:

It sounds beautiful and I want to know more. So I'm going to start with the first question Did you find the wine industry and how did you decide that this is where it's at for you?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, those are great questions and two really pivotal moments that really solidify things for me. I was in the restaurant business just waiting tables in casual restaurants, ultimately became kind of an assistant manager, but no big deal. I didn't know much about wine they had a very small wine list but I remember a day when our distributor sales rep came in and wanted to teach us about the wines on our list that he sold to us because, he felt if we knew more about them we could sell more of them, which was actually very smart.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I remember being in that class was first wine class I'd ever been to. I drank a little bit of wine, but I don't even know why I drank it, it was just there, mostly because it was our free shifter effect.

Speaker 2:

We had free glass of wine after your shift. They don't do that anymore, but they did them and anyway. So I really I enjoyed the learning, but mostly I just remember watching him and going, wow, like he's in sales, but he's teaching us and I want to teach people stuff and I really want to do it for wine. I knew nothing about wine that never stops me from anything, though, but anyway. So that was kind of the first moment that I clearly remember thinking I'd like to be a wine salesperson, and so I kept working in restaurants. I moved out to LA. I was then a wine buyer and again casual restaurant, not a big wine list and the distributor reps out there would talk to me about joining them. But you're living in LA.

Speaker 2:

Back in the dinosaurs were roaming the earth time it was still a straight commissions and I really couldn't afford to take a financial risk. La was very expensive for a young girl and so I turned it down. And then I moved back to Ohio for a while and I thought, if I'm going to do it, at least here I have a safety net my family's from Ohio, so I just got out the yellow pages back then we use I said the dinosaurs were roaming we use actually yellow pages, not just yellow pages, the business to business yellow pages. Yeah, you had to go to the house. Those didn't come to your door and I just started sending out resumes to all the wine distributors in the area and I got a call back from one of them and they hired me as an on-premise rep. And I'll never forget. I had no idea what I was getting into, I just thought it sounded cool and I remember that day that I had that seminar.

Speaker 2:

So I remember my first day on the job. They put me in a car with one of the sales reps a young guy, nice looking guy, fun and we're driving around and we were calling on restaurants only and we sat down with a buyer. It was like June, may June, it was beautiful weather out and this guy had a patio right on the river in Ohio, in Cleveland, and we're sitting there in the sun sipping on this wine. He's talking to the guy about putting these wines on his list. The guy was so easy. He's like oh yeah, we'll take this one and this one. And I'm sipping this wine. And I looked around and I just thought, oh my God, what has happened to me Like this is how did this happen? I just knew in that moment this was my whole life laid out in front of me.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

And it was really. I have to say, from that point on it was uphill. I mean, I should say it was downhill in a way. I just grew within the industry. About every three years I'd move up a little bit, move up to sales manager and ultimately had a corral of about 36 people reporting up to me on three teams. This is in my distributor life and this was in Ohio. So as a career coach.

Speaker 2:

I tell people you don't have to live in Napa which I do now, but you don't have to live here in order to get into the wine industry. Nobody could imagine you would get a job like this in Cleveland, anyway. So then I got picked up by. I applied for a supplier job many years into my career and became a supplier rep for four states in the Midwest and then ultimately got tapped on the shoulder. So we had an education team I worked for.

Speaker 2:

I got picked up by Constellation Brands and they had an education team and their team was willing to come out to your market and work with your clients, your key buyers, and train their staff. And it was a courtesy, it was a free thing that we offered to our clients. So I would bring the Academy in all the time. I knew I was a corporate trainer for a restaurant, so I knew the value of education and we would bring them in and we'd immediately see our sales go up. So I got to be really friendly with these guys. So I had no wine credentials zero, I mean nothing. And one day they tapped me on the shoulder and they say we've just got permission to add a person and we wanted to be you and I was like, are you kidding?

Speaker 1:

me, oh wow.

Speaker 2:

With the commitment that I would get my credentials, which I did, right, and I mean, I don't know if it would help your audience to know, but I was 51 when that happened.

Speaker 1:

There, you hear it. Do you hear it, ladies?

Speaker 2:

I mean, I like telling people that because I had been in the industry for 20 years by them Right, and you know I had. I had a career ahead of me, I didn't have to do it, but I did it and boy did it take. Then my career really took off. So I became a director of wine education for Constellation. I covered half of the US in Ohio, from Ohio, based in Ohio, but I covered that half of the US. And then, in 2014, the West Coast job came open and my husband and I had already decided we wanted to retire in Napa or sooner if it. You know, if it came open and I got tapped on the shoulder, the job came open and we bought a house. And here I am. That was in 2014. And I left Constellation in 19 and started working with the Napa Valley Wine Academy for the last handful of years and finally decided I just want to do my own thing. And so here I am now just doing my own thing. That is so cool.

Speaker 2:

See and.

Speaker 1:

I'm really glad that you're mentioning you know your age when you started this, because this is something that always comes up in conversation. You know especially and I don't know, maybe it's a woman thing I don't feel like I've ever heard a man go and, well, it's a little late for me to start that. Or maybe there are men out there who feel like that, but oftentimes with women, this is what I hear oh it's just too late. But why is it too late? You know?

Speaker 2:

it's not too late. I have re since I turned 50, I have reinvented myself, not just changing jobs, but even within the companies. Well, with Constellation, I held four or five different roles, moving up every time Right. So you can grow. And you know, let me tell you we talk about dinosaurs roaming. I will tell you when I started in the industry, I was 30 years old.

Speaker 2:

Right it was not an easy time there. I was the first female in Ohio to have that sales job Right and it was. I was told a million times you can't do it, the unions won't let you in, they, the buyers, won't let you in. The buyers don't want to talk to a woman. I mean straight up right to my face, and I just had the attitude of you go ahead and tell me I can't do it and then just go back because I'm coming for you. Yeah, exactly, I mean it was very motivating.

Speaker 2:

to be perfectly honest, I mean I was followed by the union bosses because I would. I would go and teach a seminar to the waiters on a Saturday. We weren't supposed to do that, according to the union. They'd write me up and I'm like I'll see you next Saturday.

Speaker 2:

So it was, I mean, I think back on it I don't really remember feeling it was very normal back then for that stuff to happen, so I just I kind of accepted it. I didn't accept it and do nothing about it. I just don't remember feeling like, oh poor me.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

And we're like. I just got to. I got to prove myself.

Speaker 1:

And you know it's a shame we have to.

Speaker 2:

But you know, I'll be honest, I probably wouldn't have accomplished the things I did had I not been challenged like that. So I'm not saying it's good that they discriminated against women so severely, but it did ultimately drive me.

Speaker 1:

Right, if anything it'll make you go. Well, I'll show you 100 percent. And I show them I'm not bragging, but I did. So you do have multiple certifications that I saw on LinkedIn. Can you talk about them for a moment? Initially, when I started this podcast, it really was for beginning wine drinkers and it shifted towards a more wine industry crowd. Yeah, so most of these people know about certifications, but it's always good to dive into that a little bit.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Well, when I was in my 40s, I had been with a distributor for quite a while and I asked my boss I was in management by then and I said do you think I should take a wine class or nothing? And nothing, he goes yeah, we'll teach you everything you need to know. That was the end of the conversation until I started working for Peter Marks, who's a master of wine and he obviously values credentials. So I got a late start. I was the oldest person in my class, but I really didn't realize the value of credentials, especially when on the sales side, when I was in sales, when I moved into education, it was different. But back then wine classes were unheard of. I mean, they were just very few and far between. But now that I've been teaching WSET since 2011, so 12 years I will tell you the classes are fuller, they're younger, people want to know, they don't need to know everything.

Speaker 2:

They don't necessarily need their diploma or their master of wine.

Speaker 2:

But, they want to enjoy wine in a way that they're informed. So wine education is part fun and very career oriented, obviously, and so I'm WSET level three. I did pass with distinction, something I'm very proud of because that was my first credential, and anybody listening that has WSET knows that that was not an easy course, oh gosh, but I'm super proud of that. It allowed me to teach levels one and levels two, which I've been doing for a long time now. I love empowering people. I do have, through the Napa Valley Wine Academy, I have my Napa Valley Wine Expert certification, which I enjoy. I live here in Napa. That's what motivated me to get it. It's not necessarily something if you were in sales would necessarily need, unless you have a Napa Heavy portfolio, of course. That's great, and I also have an American Wine Expert course certification under my belt and I found that to be really fascinating because we forget wine is consumed and sold in every state in the union.

Speaker 2:

It's also made in every state in the union and people don't realize that and when you start to and I'm from Ohio, drinking Ohio wine.

Speaker 2:

It was pink, catawba and Niagara, and those were not what I would consider maybe real wines, but I've come to have an appreciation for all of them. We can't grow Napa Cab in Missouri or Ohio. It's not going to be the same. So we grow what grows best in those regions and Long Island, new York is Kevony-Fronk-centric because that's what grows best there, and so I really felt like it opened up my eyes to the whole country and for those people who don't necessarily live on the West Coast, it's a great credential to have if you want to work for a winery in South Carolina I mean, every state has wineries. So that was a really good credential.

Speaker 2:

I do have my MS, my Master's Sum, level one. But I chose to move on to WSET, and two reasons. One is I knew I didn't want to sway on people and the Master's Sum of Ye is very focused on physically serving wines a big component in their exams when WSET is more production, great variety and business, which I liked. But it was also the criteria that Constellation was starting to embrace and I guess my best advice to anybody listening is pick one and stick with it. I know a lot of people. They'll get up to level two in WSET, then they switch to some and then they switch to society of wineage, stick with one and finish it all the way through and then bounce around.

Speaker 2:

But the reason for that is and I wanted to bring this up when I got your notes is that every wine body has its own language and its own little bent. Yes, wine is just wine. It should be all identical. It's not exactly. I mean, everybody sort of has their own spin on things. If you start bouncing around, the language gets very confusing, and so to me you're better off seeing one all the way through, or at least most of the way through, before you move to another one. That's just me. And like I say, if you're going into the restaurant industry, then quartermaster sommelier would be great, but if you're going to work for a distributor or a local winery, to me the WSET offers more in that way.

Speaker 2:

So, that's just my take.

Speaker 1:

I think that's great advice actually. So you mentor clients as a wine industry career coach? How do I envision that?

Speaker 2:

So it started well and I thank the Neff Valley Wine Academy for getting me started with this, because I was an instructor at this school and they had all their instructors become mentors and everybody sort of had their specialty. And I'm like, well, when you have a level three, you can only teach up to level two, and I'm like, well, what's my specialty? People going through level three or diploma will spend money to get coaching, but not too many people are going to sign up for coaching for level two and I thought.

Speaker 2:

But my specialty is that I've worn so many hats in the wine industry and people are constantly asking me I want to do what you do, or I want to do what you did, or how did you get started? And I thought I'm going to talk about careers. So at the same time they made me a mentor or a coach. That kind of became my tagline. I also started writing a blog for them which was all about various ways to get into the industry or different kinds of jobs in the industry, how to overcome a lack of experience, how to juz up your resume, all that kind of thing. So those two things went hand in hand. It was a big success. I did a lot of coaching with them and then, like I said in 2000, just this earlier this year, at the end of April, I decided I really, if you did the math on our earlier conversation, you know I'm not young and I want to dial things down, so I decided I would just work on my private clients.

Speaker 1:

I mean even working for the Academy.

Speaker 2:

I was doing it as a consultant anyway, right, but they took up like 90% of my time. Not complaining, I was grateful for it, but I kind of wanted to focus on some of the things and dial it down a bit. So I continue my coaching Basically. I have a link. It's in my. If you go to my Instagram account, napavalleyweingal, and you go to my LinkedIn profile, you'll see Book a Career Coaching session with Karen. You click on the link. It takes you right to my calendar, shows you what's available. You pick your poison. You can book a half hour or an hour and then you pay for it there. I can tell you what the fees are right at the moment. I can't say they'll never change, but right now a half an hour is $60 and an hour is $100, which is way below the going rate. But anyway, it'll book the session for you. You pay with your credit card any credit card works right there and then you'll get a link to my Zoom and I'll get an invitation. I'll link to my Zoom and when the time comes off we go. And it could be.

Speaker 2:

I get all kinds of clients. I get clients who are going into retirement that just want a side hustle. I get people who want to go full throttle into winemaking or distributor sales or work in wineries. They want to write, they want to. One gal wanted me to help her figure out a way to combine fitness and wine. We do a lot of brainstorming. I have a lot of resources. I have a lot of connections. I usually email the client before the session and say can you give me an idea? There is a place you can fill that in on that when you book it. But most people miss that. So I kind of give me an idea because I'll do some homework ahead of time. It's an hour that I'm with you, but it's more than an hour of work that I offer. That's a big help.

Speaker 1:

And the information, as you all know, is always going to be in the show notes. So no worries there. I am going to move on to our next question, and that is when I saw the secret shopper thing, I was like, wow, okay, I'm kind of digging it. So you know, I think almost every adult of a certain age has done some secret shopping in the past. I've done some secret shopping for restaurants. This is back in Arizona where I've done some secret shopping in that department. But when did you start doing that? What did you decide? It's like oh, I'm going to start doing secret shopper things.

Speaker 2:

So it goes back to way back in my 20s in the restaurant business. I was waiting on a group of executives from a furniture chain in Ohio and they asked me if I had bought any furniture lately. And it just so happened I had just bought a sofa from one of their places. They had like 15 units, 15 stores in the area and I had just bought a sofa from them. And they asked me about my experience and I said you want the truth or you want me to be nice? And they said well, what the truth? It was a terrible experience. I was totally profiled. I walked in I'm all by myself, I'm a young girl. The guy took me to the cheapest Naga hide sofa he could find in the back of the store and they wanted details and stuff. And they're like wow, we're really observant. Would you like to secret shopper for us? So I did.

Speaker 2:

I shopped all their stores. They gave me like 25 bucks a store.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

Very fun. Never did it again, Never really thought much about it again. Well, when I decided to branch out on my own because I was with Constellation Constellation's very big company, and I have a lot of people here in Napa that are what I call my ex-cons, my ex-Constellation friends- We've got a whole ex-con network going here, and so I was.

Speaker 2:

So I ran into one of our. One of them called me and said hey, I need some training. Can you, you know, can you help us? So I went over to her house for a happy hour her and another ex-con and we were just figuring out what they needed. And I said you know, I'm going to just throw this out here, but I've been wanting to start a secret shopper program and I feel like that would help me provide the training you need.

Speaker 1:

And they're like oh my.

Speaker 2:

God, this would be a great idea. So I just we just did it and that has parlayed into many prestigious wineries now I work with and it basically is I do the secret shopper. It's very fun because if I have to go in more than once, I have to go incognito. It's very cool. I have like glasses and a hat and anyway, and then. But it's not just a secret shopper to give you a laundry list of what's going wrong. It's really more about while I'm there. It's not just about the one person waiting on me. It's really about looking at their whole program, presented in general, looking for opportunities for better knowledge or maybe increase sales. Where are they missing their sales? And then it's followed up with customized follow up education for their teams that I that I designed based on their needs and and adding my findings to it.

Speaker 1:

All right, that's it. I'm becoming a secret shopper. It's a lot of fun it is a lot of fun and I totally do that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's. You know the thing is because I customize everything. It it's can be time consuming, but I really, I really, really enjoy doing it.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that sounds amazing. Yeah, Mental notes was just. I just wrote it in my head.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you're welcome to steal my material.

Speaker 1:

I'll book a session with you. Go for it, I don't.

Speaker 2:

I'll do yours for free. Oh, thank you.

Speaker 1:

So you are also a writer. I know that you've written a blog. Who do you write for? And you know what do you? I mean, I'm assuming you're writing about wine, but give me a little more information about that.

Speaker 2:

It's really funny because so I started writing with the Napa Valley Wine Academy. I was not writing about wine, I was writing about the wine industry and careers, as I mentioned, and that theme is kind of continuing. So now, through someone I met through the Napa Valley Wine Academy, I am working as the editor of the of the winejobscom HR newsletter. Oh, it's focused on HR, because that's who they deal with our HR teams and it's it's not so much about wine, although it kind of is. I'm in my fifth episode. My fifth it's a once a month publication. I'm writing my fifth article. I write one article and then I curate articles that would pertain to wine industry HR as well. So you get one personal article that I write and then you get links to anywhere between 10 and 15 articles that have something to do with would be interesting to an HR person.

Speaker 2:

And I also write some. I mean, I write a lot of content, not necessarily news articles, but I write a lot of content for clients. But you can see all of my articles. If you go to my Instagram link tree, go to my bio net valley wine gallon, go to link tree, you'll see all my my articles written there. At least the ones now are up from wine jobs. But it's really like one of my favorite articles that I wrote was and I think your audience, especially if they're industry heavy, will appreciate is I had a. You know I can pick any topic.

Speaker 1:

I want.

Speaker 2:

Sometimes my boss, my, who I report to, would give me suggestions, but I really wanted to write about mental health and the wine industry and you know the, specifically about the wear and tear on the vehicles that are caused when you're traveling a lot, you're away from home a lot, especially from you know, in many roles that you can have and the the the challenge of balancing what you sell and your own consumption. And now we've added cannabis to that, because a lot of wine companies, especially Constellation, are into cannabis. So you know, how do you manage that? How do you keep your marriage together? How do you stay close to your kids? How do you keep yourself, you know, sane and sober, basically so, and, by the way, I'm sitting here drinking a glass of sparkling wine.

Speaker 1:

So I'm not saying that I'm responsibly sober.

Speaker 2:

So, anyway, that's who I'm writing for now. I want and need to do more writing Right, it doesn't you know, other things come up.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and actually that does bring me to my next question Everything that you've told me and even before we started talking, I was reading about everything that you do and go oh my gosh, this woman is so busy. You know, here I am. I'm like I got to take a break from my podcast because I'm employed for time and here you are and you're doing like this and that and another thing Like how do you keep it all straight and organized?

Speaker 2:

Well, I have to have a lot of lists. I am I'm a pretty organized person, but this has made me even more organized. I have a to-do list on my computer, my outlook. I have that. I have reminders on there all the time. I keep an obviously a computerized calendar on Outlook. I use Outlook so I have it on there. But I have a handy, dandy hard copy, full-sized, 8 1⁄2 by 11 full-blown day planner and monthly planner that I use.

Speaker 2:

I can't because to me somebody calls us oh, are you available on that day? I don't want to say yes until I see what else is on my plate. If I'm writing, it'll take me four days to write. Or like right now I'm working on a project, in fact for Constellation, a big project, and I have to. I can't just look at one day on my little cell phone and go, oh yeah, I'm not doing anything that day because those days are for other things. So I'm just I'm really kind of fanatical about that and I also. So one more thing we don't know, that you don't know about me, is I also work for the Italian Wine Central, which is a Italian professional credential. I don't have the credential but I proctor all their exams, so I do that too so you're right, I have a lot of but see, I love this.

Speaker 2:

I love the diversity of all the things I do. I can say no if I feel like I've gotten a little overwhelmed. I'm not good at saying no, but I do occasionally not very often.

Speaker 1:

Or maybe not. Now I'm not going to say no.

Speaker 2:

I am going to say not now.

Speaker 1:

You know, maybe. Anyway, you know, anytime that somebody tells me about having a paper calendar, it just kind of makes my heart a little joyful and happy because nobody does that anymore. And every time that, like I said, every time I see a person with a well-used paper calendar, there's just something about it and it's all in pencil on my calendar.

Speaker 2:

Never a pen.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, it's just moving it constantly, yeah, because, oh yeah, oh, my gosh, that is so funny.

Speaker 1:

So, I do want to kind of pivot just a little bit into a different direction. You know, if anybody who's listened to my podcast you know that there has been a lot of talk lately about you know how the wine industry is changing and the younger generation has different ideas of what it is that they want from this industry, what they want it to be like, what they favor in wine over older generations, like our Gen X and boomers generations. Do you see any changes in your own business with these developments, and how do you stay yourself up to date with what a younger generation might want or need?

Speaker 2:

Yeah well, this has been the age-old discussion, Because when I started in the industry in my very early 30s, they were talking about what's this new generation drinking right? So we went from wine coolers to white Zinfandel, to Moscato, to canned wine, to boxed wine, and on it goes. So you know, in 37 years I can tell you I've seen a lot of generational changes.

Speaker 1:

The more.

Speaker 2:

That's what I love about the wine industry it is constantly changing. If you are someone that thrives on that, then this is a great industry. If you hate change, this isn't a good job For you, right? Because it is always changing and we're always having to reach down to the next generation, while the older generations are changing too. Even in established generations there's still constant changes, and I see, especially with regards to the secret shopper program and also the wine jobs articles that I write, I have to remember that I'm not writing to my generation. I'm writing to them.

Speaker 2:

An HR person could be in their 20s and a lot of the tasting room folks, the staff at tasting rooms, the wine educators, are young and impressionable. They have their own way of thinking and their own approach to things and their own work ethic. It's a different not a bad work ethic, just different than mine. So I have to always write for that audience first and my own second. The thing I do and this will sound a little like a plug, it's really not meant to be I subscribe to a lot of news publications.

Speaker 2:

They come through email and they're basically conglomerations of articles from all over the universe, all over the web, and so the one that I feel is the best is Wine Business Daily. If you just go to winebusinesscom, they do full disclosure. They own winejobscom. But what I love about them is every single day I get I don't know 15 to 30 articles, links to articles. They give you the headline, they give you the first, maybe a little blurb about what it's about. You can click on it or not.

Speaker 2:

It can be anything from acquisitions, it could be a new AVA, it could be a new method of making wine, it could be new laws governing work hours, it could be anything, anything. You have to remember the wine industry is like any other industry, so a lot of things pertain to wine and I pick and choose what I read. I don't have time to read all of it. I feel like that. That especially keeps me really up to date. And there's others besides winejobscom. There's Wine Access Daily, there's Mark Brown Industry News. Decantor has one Sure Wine Searcher. I mean there's a million of them, oh yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Wine business is the biggest, and so I feel like I get the biggest bang for my buck out of there, and especially when I wrote an article for Wine Jobs about Gen Z. Gen Z is changing a lot. They're not going to college like your generation, my generation, we didn't go to college either, especially us women we were. My parents never talked to me about college. Just get married and get some kids and stay home.

Speaker 2:

That was kind of the way it was for me, for them, but this Gen Z. They don't want to go into debt. They feel like there's other opportunities. A lot of them are turning to gaming and online social media to make their living. They're more interested in trade schools than they are for your degrees. They definitely don't want to come out with the equivalent of a house mortgage to pay off, and you can blame them Right, so you know. That's just an example. They're drinking less, they're buying used clothes. I mean, they're really doing a lot. So this is what you learn when you start reading those kind of publications.

Speaker 1:

Right, yeah, that's fantastic. What a great way to keep in touch with them. And you know, I mean I'm lucky that I have children who are. I have a millennial daughter and I have Gen Z son and daughter, so I get a pretty good understanding. They continue to educate me about what it's like to be them and what they are looking for and in their lives and what they're hoping for. And, yeah, you're absolutely right, I mean neither of my younger children has much of an interest in a long college career that will end up, you know, bankrupting them basically, and I can't blame them at all. So this is pretty fascinating stuff. I could go down the rabbit hole when it comes to that, but we don't have the time for that.

Speaker 2:

Right, just one more thing about that, though. So, living here in Napa, you know we have a lot of iconic wineries here that were you know started back in at the turn of the two centuries ago when in a millennials are in a Gen Z's mind and you know iconic men mostly that started these iconic wineries. You know the wines are great. Gen Z doesn't really care about somebody who lived 100 years ago.

Speaker 1:

They just don't get it.

Speaker 2:

It's a nice to know, but it's not something that they but you have to balance that with boomers like myself. I thrive on that stuff, you know. So you can't walk away from it. But we have to always. We have to always stay fresh. I don't care what industry you're in, you have to. You have to evolve with the times or you will. I mean, most of my friends, my work friends, never knew how old I was, and I think well, when they found out how old they was, they would call me the hip hop grandma, because I was also their dancer of the hip hop. Anyway, that's another conversation.

Speaker 1:

You know actually I'm going to add on to that some more so and I know I've said this in a previous episode I went to France last year and I visited both Klikol and you know they really managed to keep things fresh. And then when you go there, they hand you an iPad or you know some kind of tablet, and this is how you do your tour. I mean, you have a guide, but you also have this little screen that you're looking at and whatnot.

Speaker 2:

And I think that's super cool.

Speaker 1:

And if more of these you know traditional old businesses that have been around for a really long time, these old champagne houses and wineries and everything, pick up on that, they can really, really, you know, kind of draw that generation in and not make it boring.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I was at a winery in Austria and we went we're on part of the tour we went on to this winery called Lusium and it was very old, historic winery. But when you got there you went down this elevator and there was this big tank with a head of Bacchus and it was and it was bubbling and it was. You were basically they were simulating being inside of a fermentation tank with a light show and bubbles everywhere and it was so cool and then. But then you went into the more historic part and then there was a laser light show.

Speaker 2:

And then you went to another historic part. It was a riot and it's been there. You know, it's probably a hundred year old winery, maybe even longer. Right, yeah, they did a good job of drawing you in.

Speaker 1:

That sounds amazing. Love that. So obviously, with you being a wine industry career coach, you would believe that there is a future in the wine industry. I strongly believe that. So I mean, obviously I would always recommend, if somebody wants to do a career switch, now that you know about Karen, I mean literally book a session with her to get a little bit more detailed information for you. Specifically, but generally speaking, what are some recommendations that you would make to both younger and older adults who want to kind of change careers, pivot and start dabbling into this industry?

Speaker 2:

Yeah Well, first of all, it's a great time to start exploring the wine industry, because the wine industry, like everyone else is experiencing labor shortages.

Speaker 2:

So you know, sometimes they will drop some of their requirements, which is you know, or at least look the other way. So it's a great time to get in and remember that, as I mentioned a little bit earlier, the wine industry needs all kinds of positions, whether you so let's just say, you think the wine industry would be cool but you don't really have a credit, wine credentials, you just drink for fun and maybe you've never worked in the industry before. You know, don't, let, don't, ever let that stop you. So you know we need things like we need HR people, we need marketing people, we need legal people, we need logistics, and that's just a short list of all the kind of people that make up the wine industry.

Speaker 2:

You know, obviously, the winemakers and seller rats and that's a fun name we use for the people working the seller that are actually making the wine. They're pumping and you know, and we need vineyard workers and all of that, great pickers and all that. So you know it's a good time to get in and you can. You probably have skills that can translate to the wine industry and you know my best advice you know you can get in and you can get in and you can is. I always say this. I said it when I had a podcast, I said it in all my articles don't ever let a job description stand in your way of applying for a job.

Speaker 2:

And what I mean by that is when you know my big resource for all my clients, I tell them go to winegobscom. That's where all the industry puts their wine jobs. It's very consolidated, it's very easy to use, it's super user friendly. But what I like about using wine jobs is you can look at a ton of wine job descriptions based on the titles and you're gonna see things like they require four years of experience in the wine industry or a four year degree. I hate to tell you I don't have a four year degree. I wouldn't have the job I have today if I let that stop me right.

Speaker 2:

So you know but if it also says you need computer skills and you need sales skills and you've done those things. You can overcome some of those other things with your passion, with your drive for hard work. So if you see a job that you want, go for it. What do you? I tell you, if you don't go for it, it's a hundred percent no.

Speaker 2:

So if you apply for it, you got a sliver of a chance, right, yeah, yeah. So you know, don't ever let a job description remember. When they give you that laundry list of what's required for the job, like what they're looking for, they're looking for a unicorn. Nobody's gonna check every box and if they do, they're overqualified, probably.

Speaker 2:

Yeah yeah, so you know, don't get discouraged. Yeah, don't get discouraged by that. Also, you know, we talked about it earlier subscribe to trade publications, wine spectator, wine enthusiast, de Canter, those are fine, but make sure some of them are gonna be wine business, wine access, and you know something in the world of wine business, because that's going to give you that part of the language that you don't learn at the wine schools. And so when you go on an interview, you can speak to a broader. You can speak more broadly to the wine business, not just about what side of the hill the grapes are grown at. Yeah, you know. So you need both. And then you know network, network, network to meet people in the industry. How can you do that if you're not in the industry? Well, I can tell you when I get I can't tell you how many requests I get to pour wine at charity events for free. Yeah, it's a great. You're gonna meet other lot of distributor folks are there. A lot of them are pouring wine. You'll meet a lot of wine makers. You'll meet a lot of winery owners, you know. So look for charity opportunities Also.

Speaker 2:

Get a little part-time gig. Go to a wine, work in a wine bar once a week and you'll meet the distributors. You'll meet wine-minded people. Yeah, or get it. I had a cuss. I had one of my clients. I had recommended that to her. She was in the shoe industry of all things and she wanted to get. And she lived in New York City and she wanted to get into the wine industry and she volunteered at a liquor store to just stock shelves and, you know, help with tastings and she met a guy who worked as a distributor and he got her a job in sales.

Speaker 1:

Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 2:

And you know so it was worth her effort. You know to do that. You know, network with people on LinkedIn. Network with people on Instagram. I can't tell you how many people started their own business on social media. Not easy, by the way. I don't want people to think, oh, I can just do it. It's not easy, you have to do a lot of research, but it's very doable.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, for sure. And also, speaking of social media, there's, you know, groups on Facebook that will usually be very localized wine industry groups that you can become a member of and just start reading and posting, and oftentimes they will actually post job offers there before they go to the job boards because they want to kind of put their feelers out into their local group of people in that group.

Speaker 2:

That's a good point. And get to know your local distributors, your local wine shops, and don't wait for it to show up on winojobscom. Go right to that website. If it's a wine bar, if it's a distributor, go right to that website. They post there first, and so that's another really good way to search. I mean, I could give you 4,000 tips. I gave you three, A lot of them. I don't want to give everything away.

Speaker 1:

No, absolutely. So. I know, of course, that you've done some travels, because I checked out you on Instagram, but what are some wine regions that you've traveled to that stand out to you, that you just love and would love to go back to? Oh boy.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I've loved every one of them and, fortunately, when you work in the wine industry, especially when you're in sales with either a distributor or a supplier a lot of times wine travel is included. It's something that you just have to do, oh darn.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I've been very fortunate.

Speaker 2:

That's how I got into education as I met the head of the education team on a wine trip to Italy. You know I honestly can't tell you my favorite. I can tell you New Zealand was amazing. Italy, I love the Tuscan region. I really love Tuscany. I'll tell you what the one you wouldn't suspect is.

Speaker 2:

I was taken up to the Prosecco region in the Veneto, up in the northeast corner of Italy, and we did a wine tasting up there. People think, oh, prosecco it's just the cheap version of champagne, it's not a big deal and generally what you see in the grocery stores isn't. But I got to meet with producers that are just killing it with very high-end Prosecco's single-vignered stuff. And there's a region within Prosecco called Cartitze. It is honestly the most beautiful wine region I've ever seen and we were there in the early summer so it was just green and lush and drinking cartitze in cartitze was because it's a really small little region that very few people would ever even know to visit, so that made that super special.

Speaker 2:

I did. I was on a river cruise one time and I was actually the wine educator on the cruise, so it was kind of fun for me. I get to do seminars every day and they stopped in the Cris Airmanage in the Rhone Valley and the captain I'll make it a short story asked me would I like to participate in a ceremony for wine for the brotherhood of the Cris Airmanage, the Confery, and I'm like.

Speaker 2:

I don't know what this guy's talking about. It's probably Disneyland-ish. They do it for every cruise ship that comes through. Oh, that wasn't it at all. It was this big ceremony. They indicted me with a grapevine, they had a big reception. It's only done once a year, oh my god. So that was a really special moment. Going down the wrong river and getting inducted into that, it was just I swerved into it. It wasn't anything I did, it just happened to be in the right place at the right time. But that was kind of a fun experience.

Speaker 1:

Yes, absolutely, that sounds amazing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that was super fun.

Speaker 1:

Well, I only have one question left for you, and that is when it comes to the region where you currently live.

Speaker 2:

This is the hardest question on the page.

Speaker 1:

Well, so let's assume I'm going to Napa next week and I have three days, ok, and I want to drink wine. Where do I go?

Speaker 2:

Oh boy, okay, napa for three days. So first of all, I would only book two a day. Don't drink our bad wine tasting, because it is not fun. You're always running behind. Yeah, don't feel good. At the end of the day you can enjoy your dinner. I mean, two wineries, is you, and then you could always fill in. They are accepting walk-ins again. It used to be only reservations. Some are still only reservations, so make sure, if you have your heart set on one, make sure. Also, small groups. They won't take big groups without a reservation, but anyway. So there's a couple of places that are my go-to.

Speaker 2:

When I get people coming here from out of town, the first place I take them, or one of the first places is I take them to a little family-owned winery called TruChard. They are nationally distributed, but in very small amounts. The TruChard family is still owned by Tony and Joanne. They're in their 80s. They still do all their own farming, all their own marketing. They are a grower for other wineries, like Farnante, nickel, nickel, robert Mondavi, but they also make their own wine.

Speaker 2:

What I like about them is they live right on the property in a house, right. They have beautiful views. They're in Carneros. They actually are so historic. They are credited with being one of the founding fathers of the Carneros region. Wow, very, very historic. They have a cave, so you get a nice cave tour. In the winter you can even taste in the cave. You get a nice walk around the vineyards.

Speaker 2:

It's not just a sit-down and taste five little tastings of wine. You actually get an experience and I would say that wherever you're looking at going, you'll see it advertised on their websites oh, an experience. Read what they're doing. If they're just going to put you in a seat and give you five samples, I'd look for someone that's going to give you more than that, some kind of a walking tour or a grounds tour or a winery visit or something. For what we charge here in Napa. I mean, it's really gone kind of crazy. I want to have an experience. To me, an experience is not five ounces of wine, so look for that. Also, the number one place is when you're coming into Napa.

Speaker 2:

Also down in the Carneros region is Domain Carneros. It's a sparkling winehouse owned by Tess and Jer, and they have a new program there called Bubbles and Bites. It's just a little more than a regular tasting, but you get five little bites of food, but they're not little. I mean it's not a full blown lunch, but we were full. We did it at lunchtime and we were completely full. So you get wines paired with food and that's a really, really nice program. I like that a lot. I'm digging this new little private winery here called Bulldog, down the street from my house. They have a little private wine club. You can book a session with them. You want to talk about the small producer? This is that for sure. There's just too many to tell you about.

Speaker 2:

Well, I think that's kind of a nice little sampling of places I would say nickel, and nickel right now is my favorite because they do 21 different single vineyard Cabernet, sauvignon's, all from different vineyards, all from different ABAs. If you really want to learn about how important the dirt is like, how this cab could be different than the one just down the street, grown the same way, same clone, same everything, that's a really great educational experience.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh. Yes, yeah, that's incredible. Well, thank you so much. That's amazing. I do plan on going down to Nampa, not next week, but definitely in the next few months.

Speaker 2:

You'll make sure I know you're here and we'll get together and we're happy to go with you or hook you up either way.

Speaker 1:

That sounds amazing. I would absolutely love that. My dear friends, it's crazy how time does fly when you're having a good time. I thought this was an amazing interview. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you hopping on here and answering all my curious questions. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2:

Ruthie, it was really really nice to work with you on this. I've known you. We've known each other from afar a little bit, but it's like we get to know each other better.

Speaker 1:

Thank you very much. Exactly, and as always, you guys, you know I'm going to have everything in the show notes, so it'll be very easy to just go on there and click on any link that's in there. And with all that, all I have left to say is, of course, post.